00:00How much do you want to spend half the time? The answer is I don’t have a
00:04budget. And my answer is you’re full of
00:07>> That’s Steve Vasano, the founder of the jet business, the world’s first and only
00:11street level aviation showroom for commercial jet aircrafts.
00:14>> Steve’s brokered over 300 corporate jet deals over the last 30 years to the
00:20likes of Tony Robbins and Frank Sinatra, totaling over 4 billion US. 30 years
00:26ago, the average age of a CEO of a company buying an airplane was probably
00:30in his late 60s. Today, that person is probably in his late 40s. So, that adds
00:35so many more people into the market.
00:38>> This is a complete masterass with the world’s number one expert on jet
00:41purchasing and how to do it without falling into the biggest traps. The
00:45biggest mistake buyers make is to have their in-house counsel say, “Go
00:48negotiate this.” Big, big, big mistake. Today you’ll learn the sweet spot where
00:53purchasing a jet is financially wise.
00:55>> If you’re flying 200 hours a year, I can pretty much show you how I can get you
01:0130 more days in the office a year.
01:04>> Wow.
01:05>> The top mistakes you need to avoid.
01:07>> If you really want an airplane today that’s less than 5 years old, you good
01:11luck. Some people decide on which airplane they want to buy by the color
01:16of the seats. It’s really bizarre and it is so not how to buy a jet 101 and
01:23what’s coming next to the industry. A passenger carrying drone that is going
01:27to be huge.
01:32>> How’s it going guys?
01:34>> Good. Good. Full Hollywood right now.
01:39>> Steve, it’s great to have you here. Thank you so much.
01:41>> Much thanks for the invitation. For anybody listening and not watching, we
01:45are in the showroom of one of the most remarkable businesses in the world.
01:48That’s the jet business in London. So, we’re in this amazing meeting room in a
01:54fuselage on Park Lane. I’m around the corner from the famous aviation wall.
02:00Have you got a name for that?
02:01>> Yeah, the video wall. The video.
02:02>> The video wall.
02:03>> You know, it’s an actual life-size fuselage on Park Lane in the heart of
02:08London. It’s amazing.
02:10>> Yeah. Listen, I mean, we try to get into passing traffic to get shocked when they
02:14drive by and see the showroom and get them to come in. And you know, once you
02:17get them to come in, hit them with the video wall and inside the video walls
02:20all the data. So, it’s really the environment, the technology, and the
02:25information. Those are the three sort of legs to the stool. In saying that,
02:29there’s two really interesting things. One is you’re an American who decided to
02:34open up a jet business in London. and two, you’ve created this magnificent
02:41space. Walk us through those two decisions because you’re clearly not
02:44somebody who takes the normal path.
02:47>> Let me tell you, every time I write a check for the rent, I I keep telling
02:50myself that.
02:54>> Yeah.
02:54>> Yeah. It’s it is it is really, you know, 90,000 vehicles a year drive by here.
03:02And we calculated that uh each day there are 40 people who own a jet that pass by
03:08this window.
03:09>> Wow.
03:09>> Wow.
03:10>> How did you calculate that?
03:11>> We figured out we we did is we did a calculation that how many you know
03:15millionaires are how many jets there are owned by you know the people in the UK
03:19and we took the number of the cars going by and
03:22>> wow
03:23>> and and half of the 40 are different.
03:26>> So they got the same 20 every day that come by live here. There’s 20 that
03:30actually come in and go out of town every day that are are different people,
03:34which is key to being here. I could be on Barkley Square, which is an
03:38incredible location. All the private equity firms and everybody there, but
03:41it’s the same people every day. If
03:43>> we go back to the very beginning, can you talk us through the first jet you
03:46sold?
03:47>> Yeah. Well, I was 23 years old and um I was working as a lobbyist on Capitol
03:54Hill and representing the airplane manufacturers. It was a great job, but
03:59you know the ego was satisfied because I was walking through the halls of
04:02Congress and Senate and you know really just talking with the heads of the of
04:08the US government and a lot of heads of industries and things like that and it
04:12was a fantastic ego boost but the financial reumination was terrible. I
04:17was I mean literally I was making $13,000 a year
04:21>> and we had a company plane that I was able to use and fly myself
04:25>> if I wanted to and the only deal was you had to pay for the gas. I couldn’t even
04:30afford to pay for the gas. So, um, so I got a job at night and I and I in a
04:34nightclub that my roommate owned and, uh, basically met a guy who sold jets
04:39and he started coming in there showing off all these paycheck paychecks,
04:43commission checks he was making. And finally, I convinced him to meet his
04:46boss and got a job working there for free. Uh, cuz they said, “You never sold
04:51airplanes before. Why why would I hire you?” So, I convinced him to hire me for
04:55free with no, you know, no exposure, financial exposure. And it took me about
04:59nine months of working there for free waiting tables at night in a restaurant
05:04to pay my rent. Uh and then finally uh after nine months I had my first
05:09transaction and this was to a South American uh billionaire. Uh and in news
05:16those days a billionaire was very rare. I mean it was uh it was sort of like
05:21talking to you know like Elon Musk or somebody of today. And we signed a deal.
05:26At the time it was a $3.1 million airplane, which equivalent today is like
05:31$50 million. And I, you know, I’ve never been on a private jet myself. I was
05:35trying to sell them, but I never really was ever on one. And we signed a deal.
05:40And in America, there’s certain states that you take delivery in, so you don’t
05:44have to pay a certain tax. So this place we closed in North Carolina. And so he
05:49sent a couple of his well I I will call them henchmen but representatives to
05:56come and sign the final papers and um and and we were taking the airplane from
06:01North Carolina and flying to Miami. We were confirming all the funds were paid,
06:05the deal was closed and then they were taking the airplane to South America and
06:08I was getting on the commercial airplane and flew back to Washington DC and
06:12halfway through Miami I I was sitting there very happy. I mean, I was 23 years
06:17old, sitting on this jet, multi-million dollar jet. I felt like I’m I’m like
06:21James Bond. This is like super cool. And halfway there, the guys, two of the guys
06:26facing me, I mean, closer than you are to me right now. It was a small jet. And
06:30they said, “Steve, listen. We need to talk to you about something pretty
06:33serious.” Like, “Yeah, sure. What’s the problem?” He said, “Well, listen. We
06:36need to talk to you about our fee.” Your fee? What do you mean your fee? You work
06:40for the buyer. What are you talking about? Yeah, well, we want to get a, you
06:43know, kickback, a fee to get this deal done. And I said, “But the deal’s done.
06:46What are you talking about? I mean, uh, yeah. Well, we want to get make some
06:49money.” You know, well, I’m sorry. The transaction is done. I mean, I don’t
06:53know how much you talking about. They told me how much you wanted. And I said,
06:56“You’re nuts. I mean, that’s all my company made on this deal. You can’t
07:00give me that kind of money.” Well, that’s what we want. I said, “Listen, I
07:04might be a little young and naive. This may be my first deal, but isn’t how this
07:08is supposed to work? Is like you’re supposed to tell me how much you want
07:12and like long time ago.” And then we put this on top of the price and we sell the
07:17plane and you know is that how this is supposed to happen. Listen, we don’t
07:20care. We want this money. I said, “Well, listen, forget it.” Well, listen. When
07:24we get down to the country we’re going to, he said, “You know, we’ll get it all
07:28settled out.” And I said, “You you got it all wrong, boys.” I said, “I’m
07:30getting out in Miami. I’m not going with you home.” He said, “No, no, no. You got
07:35it all wrong.” And he ripped really puts his hand to his inside of his jacket
07:39pocket and he pulled out a pistol and put it right in my face. He said, “No,
07:43you don’t understand.” He said, “You’re coming with us to South America, and
07:48when we get our money, you can go home, and if we don’t ever get our money, you
07:52won’t ever be going home.” Now, let me just explain. This is about the same
07:56time that the movie Scarface came out, okay? And and and if you remember that
08:01movie, okay,
08:03>> all my image in my head was, I’m just going to get chopped up into a bunch of
08:06pieces and they’re just going to send a box to my mother and say, you know, have
08:10fun. And I thought I was done. So I was I went from like you know feeling like I
08:15was James Bond me a hero like and all of a sudden I’m like holy this guy’s gun in
08:19my face. I mean I’m dead. I’m I’m really finished.
08:22>> So we landed in Miami and they have these places called fixed base operators
08:26which are the sort of private terminals for corporate jets.
08:30>> Y
08:30>> so we have to land there and so we were going in. He says come on let’s go call
08:34your boss and get this money sent. So literally he has a gun in his pocket and
08:38he let’s go inside. This is really it’s something out of the movies. It was
08:42really bizarre, very surreal. And you know, in those days, we didn’t have cell
08:46phones. We didn’t have fight phones. So, we had to go inside. We literally put 10
08:50cents into the telephone to call my office. And uh as I’m trying to call
08:55through my office, the lady behind the counter said to the guy who was with me,
08:59“Excuse me, sir. I need your credit card for the fuel to be put on the plane.”
09:03So, the guy turned around and went to go give her the credit card. Well, as soon
09:06as he got as far as the counter, I dropped the phone. I ran out the other
09:10side of the door. So, one side of these terminal goes to the ramp. One goes to
09:14the parking lot where they have taxis and things like that. And uh so I ran
09:19out. There’s a taxi. I said, “Quick, quick, quick, get me to the other side.
09:22I got to get my flight. Go, go, go, go.” And the taxi guy took off, man. I’m in
09:26the back seat, you know, ducking down. The guy comes running out. I mean, this
09:30is really a movie. And I thought he was going to be like starting the shoot, but
09:34it didn’t didn’t get that far. And uh and so anyway, he takes me around to the
09:38airport. This is Miami International Airport. They have these gigantic
09:42concrete columns at the airport and I’m like, you know, literally hiding behind
09:45the columns and thinking these guys coming after me. You know, I’m getting
09:49on my flight. There’s no metal detectors in those days. You know, this is a long
09:52time ago.
09:53>> So, I get my, you know, gate. I’m hiding behind the, you know, the columns. I’m
09:57looking looking. They finally board the airplane. I get on the plane. I’m wait
10:01till they close the door, man. You know, God, man. I mean, I escaped. I escaped,
10:07you know. I flew back home because I called when I was waiting. I called the
10:11officer said, “Hey, did you get the money? Is it all done?” “Yeah, yeah,
10:13it’s all closed.” “Congratulations.” Great. Hang up. Like, “Congratulations.”
10:17I mean, man like this is crazy. Yeah. I mean, I was like, “This is [ __ ]
10:21crazy. This is what this business is about.”
10:23>> So, you’re like, “This is the industry for me then.”
10:25>> Yeah. So, you know, of course, I get home and I’m like shaking on the plane.
10:30I But now, next day, I get back to my office. First thing, of course, I come
10:33out of my apartment. And I’m, you know, looking around. I get in my car. I’m
10:39turning the key like, you know, I guess today,
10:43>> you know, they’re going to blow up or not. And I get to the office and of
10:46course they’re like, “What happened?” I’m like, “Ah,” I told these guys to go
10:49off like, but like for a month, I was looking out
10:53over my shoulder, these guys coming after me. It was It was really bizarre.
10:57But I was like, “Fuck, it can’t be like this normally. I got to do one more
11:01deal. you don’t poop because this is what this Yeah. You know, and then and
11:05then it took me two more months. I I sold another plane then and it was
11:09pretty boring and come by then. But uh and
11:12>> that’s what happened. That was like a billion years ago.
11:15>> What a way to start. What a way to start.
11:17>> That was uh definitely, you know, when they say, “What was your first
11:20airplane?” Say, I’m like, “Wow, that’s it. It is really a crazy story.” Got it.
11:24Okay. Um so, walk us through a little bit about like a typical process. Let’s
11:29say you’ve got um somebody coming and they’re looking to buy a jet from you.
11:33What’s a typical like sales process that you would go through with them?
11:37>> So, the first thing if they’re looking to buy the question is is what kind of
11:42airplane do you really need or what model airplane you need? Cuz there
11:45there’s 150 different aircraft models that still trade in the world today. So
11:52there’s been about 260 models that have been built since 1963 when the first
11:56corporate jets were made, but a lot of them obviously went to the graveyard and
11:59there’s still about 150 that are still trading from a small little citation to
12:04a Boeing. And so the idea is how do we figure out which airplane model you
12:11need? And so that’s where we take them through a process through our app or ask
12:16them a number of questions on the phone and things to try to filter out the
12:20airplanes that that don’t meet their needs. Yeah.
12:23>> Because that’s the key first of all to figure out what is what they need at
12:27least at a minimum. And then you tell them anything above this you can have
12:31but this is sort of the baseline. Don’t go below because it won’t meet your
12:35objectives whether it’s financial, whether it’s operating costs or or
12:39whether it’s the operating specifics of uh the performance or things like that.
12:43So the number one thing is really figure out what they need. Okay. And then they
12:48then what they want might be something different.
12:52>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Um, and you obviously like you’re famous for like
12:57showing the wall basically and then walking through people in your app and
13:00you’re asking them a series of questions. Maybe for the audience like
13:03tell them a little bit about about those questions and like why you have the them
13:06ordered in that particular way.
13:08>> Well, number one is how much do you want to spend? And you know I would say half
13:12the time the answer is I don’t have a budget.
13:16>> Okay.
13:16>> And and my answer is you’re full of [ __ ]
13:19>> Okay. You know, it’s it’s the normal answer you get because everybody wants
13:23to feel like I you know, just tell me what’s available. Tell me what’s
13:28available. It’s like, I want to buy a car. Okay. Okay, fine. Well, you know,
13:32what’s for sale? What do you need? A twoseater? Do you want a convertible? Do
13:36you want a station wagon? You want a camper? You want, you know, you can’t
13:39say, I want to buy a car. You know, you have to sort of give me a little bit of
13:43parameters to narrow it down. It’s the same thing with an airplane. So, the key
13:47is how much you want to spend. And then after that is how many people do you got
13:50to carry? That tells you how big of an airplane you need to get. How old of an
13:54airplane? Because that could tell you, you know, financially how much can you
13:57want to spend. You said how many people want to carry now? How old of an
14:00airplane? And then the last question is is how far do you have to go for? I use
14:06a term saying about five or six times a year. What’s the longest trip you need
14:11to go on? And because if you’re, let’s say, going from London to the south of
14:16France every few weeks and you’re going to China once a year, you don’t buy an
14:20airplane to go to China. So what we’re saying is get an airplane that meets
14:24your needs, you know, 80% of the time, not 100% of the time. And and then we
14:30start going backwards from there. Okay, now we got these four questions
14:33answered. That filters out literally 95% of the airplanes. And now we really
14:38laser focus into those and start looking at the difference between those. And
14:42that’s where the sort of buyer really gets his attention because now
14:49you see it’s very bespoke, very custom. He has to pay attention now because now
14:54I’m going to ask you really more specific questions and now you have to
14:58really tell me the truth of um you know it’s like a doctor. Yeah.
15:02>> Right. You you got to really tell me what’s matter with you or I can’t help
15:06you. You know,
15:07>> I don’t drink. That’s why
15:10>> once a week from Monday through Friday.
15:12>> Yeah.
15:12>> And and and what about I guess like the the typical steps somebody would go
15:17through, right? So they come in now, you filter down those aircraft and like
15:20let’s say they’ve picked that one like what steps do they normally go through?
15:24>> Okay. So to get to that point,
15:26>> yeah,
15:26>> could take a day, a week, a month, two years.
15:29>> Okay.
15:30>> Okay. That that is it depends. How ready are you really to buy a plane? Okay. But
15:37once you get to that point, okay, and you say, I want to buy that model
15:41aircraft. Yeah.
15:42>> Now we start saying, okay, fine. We know this is what you want. Now we say this
15:46is the inventory of every airplane in the world that is this model. Now there
15:53might be some let’s say for example, let’s say like a GIM G550. Yeah.
15:58>> They went from 2004 to 2021. So the val the price on those airplanes go anywhere
16:04from 14 million to 36 million. So now the question goes back to okay what was
16:09your budget?
16:10>> Yeah.
16:10>> Right. So if you told me your budget was 20 million. Well okay now we can still
16:13look at that airplane but now we’re only looking up to 2010.
16:17All right. So now we go and say okay everything from 2004 to 2010 here is
16:22every single airplane in the world for sale. Now we start doing this sort of
16:25filtering out of you know how do you want the layout? You know what what the
16:29pedigree of the airplane is? you know, where it’s been maintained, um, how many
16:33hours it’s got damage histories and start filtering out what’s available and
16:38and what are the best ones available. And then once the purchase agreement is
16:41executed, the airplane goes into a pre-purchase inspection. So that goes to
16:46a certified maintenance facility that rips the airplane completely apart, goes
16:51through every record in log book from the date of birth until today, and make
16:57sure every single record is perfectly accurate. How long does that take?
17:01>> Well, usually sometime depending on how old the airplane is that the log book
17:04review takes longer than the actual inspection of the airplane because if
17:07you have 10 years or 20 years of records, you really have to go through
17:12because if you don’t have a complete set of records, the value is a problem
17:17because you don’t know whatever happened in that interim period to the airplane
17:21and that’s very important.
17:23>> So, if you don’t have a complete set of records, you got a bit of an issue. So,
17:27usually the inspection takes about two to three weeks. But if they find things
17:32that are wrong with it, especially, you know, the C word, which is corrosion,
17:37that that is something that usually is uh the one that really starts costing a
17:41lot of money and takes a lot longer to get repaired. And so, you can go from 3
17:46weeks to 3 months depending on what you find wrong with the airplane. But
17:50usually the buyer pays for the inspection which could be anywhere
17:54between $50 and $150,000 depending on the level of inspection and the airplane
17:58and the seller is required to fix anything at his cost to uh everything
18:03they find wrong with the airplane.
18:05>> It’s kind of crazy how you’re saying the the barrier to entry is so low but the
18:09knowledge requirement is so high to actually do a good job.
18:11>> Yeah. Well, that’s so that’s where people don’t understand. Our added value
18:18is so hard to explain to people until you actually start executing their
18:24transaction.
18:25>> Because what happens is some of these guys who just get in the industry and
18:28they don’t know what they’re doing,
18:30>> they’ll just sort of step away and let the lawyers to try to figure it out and,
18:34you know, they just sort of wait for their commission check. We are
18:37completely different. And I mean, we really act as if it’s our money on the
18:41table. We’re we’re involved every single day with the maintenance facility, with
18:46the lawyers, with the accountants, with the tax people. We’re much more in the
18:50trenches, you know, representing our client. This is interesting because it
18:53kind of reminds me of like even having like M&A bankers that are representing
18:56you in a deal, for example, when you’re selling a company. It’s like the good
19:00ones will be following along trying to like remove things that are causing
19:03friction in the process to make sure it gets over the line. And you see the ones
19:07that aren’t so good, they just kind of take a backseat and say, “My work’s kind
19:09of done.” Right.
19:10>> Exactly. And and that and there’s a big difference because you really there’s a
19:13lot of money you left on the table.
19:15>> Yeah.
19:16>> So, you know, if you really if you don’t have and that’s where, you know, people
19:20negotiate your fee all the time, right? No matter how much you want to charge,
19:23there’s too much.
19:25>> And uh and and I always tell the client, I mean, don’t look in my pocket. Look in
19:29your pocket. I mean, yeah, look at how much more I’m going to save you when
19:32we’re buying an airplane and how much more I’m going to make you when we’re
19:35selling your airplane cuz we we bring more value there and I’m going to save
19:40you or make you a lot more than my fee. And that’s what you should really be
19:43paying attention to, not, you know, how much money am I making because the value
19:48we add is just just very intangible. So, I’m curious as well, do you find when
19:54you’re when you’re selling a jet, who they bring to go and see the jet
19:59influences a lot whether they’re viewing it from an emotional or like a rational
20:03perspective.
20:04>> So, it’s amazing that u some people decide on which airplane they want to
20:09buy by the color of the seats.
20:12>> It’s weird. It’s really bizarre. And it is so not how to buy a jet 101, but you
20:20know some people do they do do a beautiful job on putting a new interior
20:24in the airplane, make it look beautiful and mechanically the airplane’s a pig.
20:27>> Yeah.
20:27>> Uh so we try to do the other way around. We try to tell them everything about the
20:32airplane and try not to show the picture until the very end. Ah,
20:37>> so that we sort of get rid of the airplanes that don’t make sense, you
20:41know, and and then start showing the interior because you can change the
20:45interior of an airplane. You can’t change the history. You can’t change the
20:50pedigree. You can’t change the maintenance uh facilities that have
20:53worked on the airplane, where it’s been kept, and hanged, not, how many hours
20:56are on it. Those things you can’t change. But to change the seats and the
21:00carpet and the wood, that stuff you can change. And and by the way, you know,
21:05when you’re buying something that much money, you should change it to not pick
21:10one airplane over the other one because you like it better than the other, but
21:14doesn’t mean you would
21:15>> love that airplane. So, you’d want to redo the interior the way you personally
21:19like it.
21:20>> Yeah. Sure.
21:20>> And it’s a minimal piece of the total acquisition course. Why wouldn’t you do
21:24that? Yeah, that makes sense. It actually reminds me when I went and
21:28bought my car, I immediately eliminated everything that wasn’t black seats. So
21:32like I I would have fall into that trap,
21:35>> but it doesn’t make sense.
21:37>> On a plane, I think even more so. Um,
21:40>> okay. I want to spend some time with you to kind of get like a a sales masterass
21:45from you in particular around like high ticket sales. Obviously, you’re talking
21:49to like some of the most powerful people in the world or companies. Uh, so we’d
21:52like to like learn through that. um could you maybe like walk us through
21:56like a typical sales process? But I guess like first starting off with like
22:00the top of the funnel, like how do you actually bring people towards you?
22:03>> Before I had the showroom concept, okay, uh it was a lot like maybe even in the
22:09property business. So the ideal uh way to do business is to go try to
22:15find an owner of an airplane to get a listing.
22:18>> Yeah. and sign that guy up to give you a listing to exclusively represent that
22:25airplane for sale. And then once you had that airplane, you know, people wanted
22:29that airplane, they would come to you and that would sort of be a slow
22:33process, but and going back when this industry was, you know, 50 years ago,
22:38you know, you had to go get a camera, you got to go take pictures, find one
22:42picture, get printed, and get you send it in the in the post. And it it took
22:47like forever. Now things just happened by the second.
22:50>> Um but so the originally it was trying to find a customer by locking up the
22:55airplane and then having buyers come to you. uh since we had the showroom uh and
23:03since we had co uh the amount of airplane demand has
23:08really really gone up and since we had the showroom we got had a lot more face
23:13to face with clients and they saw what we did and how the education process
23:17really was benefiting the buyer. So we went really from 95% representing
23:24sellers and now we’re probably 60% representing buyers.
23:30>> So our whole business model has changed because now they see how much value we
23:37can add to a buyer’s uh sort of goal and it just makes the whole buying process
23:45easier because it is not like buying a piece of property. It’s not like buying
23:49a car. it is so much more complicated and especially on the international
23:53platform it’s really really comp complicated. So it’s it’s really um you
23:59know a process that starts from finding the buyer or seller depending on which
24:03one you’re representing and depending what hat you have on and then the
24:06process starts from there.
24:08>> Wow. So how how much would you say that like cold calling is still important in
24:13your business today? Is that still a practice that you you preach? Well, cold
24:18calling as far as researching the the owners of the airplanes is still very
24:23important because we’re my research department is really trying to find
24:28who’s looking to buy or sell before they’re looking to buy or sell. Yeah.
24:32>> So, they can build that relationship uh on an ongoing basis, but catch them
24:37before they actually make that decision to go forward and hopefully get them to
24:41give us the mandate to represent them to buy or sell. So, we’re trying to get
24:45ahead of the game to sort of build that relationship to get us to get that
24:51agreement and and from there it’s okay, can we get the mandate? And if we can’t
24:56get the mandate, can we still find the other side of that deal? What type of
25:00triggers would you say that you’re looking for when you’re cold calling to
25:03see like when somebody might be looking to change and like how far into the
25:06future you looking to kind of get onto their radar? So, it’s it’s gotten more
25:11difficult because there’s a lot it’s funny you say we have a lot of
25:14competition. There’s probably hundreds of people out there that are trying to
25:19buy or sell airplanes because there is actually no barrier to entry in this
25:23industry. There’s no license required. There’s no accreditation. I there is an
25:27accreditation group. It’s called the International Aircraft Deals
25:31Association, IATA, and we’re a part of them. and they’re they probably their
25:36members probably represent about 65% of all the jet transactions,
25:44but there’s a lot of individual people that just basically have a cell phone
25:48and a laptop and they’re trying to get in there and try to do a deal. It’s not
25:51as easy as it sounds, but the barrier to entry is is uh pretty low. So the the
25:58the idea is, you know, how do we get in there and get these people who are
26:02getting tons of these inquiries or people baring every every month? How do
26:07they pay attention to us? Our exposure on social media over the last couple
26:12years has helped us
26:14>> get known more. And because we have that exposure, people when they get the call
26:19saying it’s from the jet business, they’ll say, “Oh, you guys are the guys
26:23with the videos, blah, blah, blah.” and and it allows us that extra effort, you
26:27know, or e easiness of getting into the door and starting a conversation with
26:32them. So, that’s really the hardest part is getting them to talk to you on the
26:36phone because they get bombarded with these guys every month and they’ll just
26:40hang up on you.
26:41>> So, that that’s helped a lot. Uh, but the fact of the matter is is we’re a
26:45very boutique kind of we only deal in a certain size of airplane and you know
26:51and the upper end of the market. So we’re really focused, super laser
26:54focused on on the upper end of the market.
26:57>> And what type of price range would that be?
26:59>> So it’s not necessarily price range because the the way the airplanes are
27:02are divided up into categories called they’re called small, midsize, super
27:08midsize, large cabin, uh ultra long range, and VIP airliner like this
27:14airplane. So we don’t do the small and midsize airplanes. We deal with the
27:18super mids and up. And out of the 25,000 jets in the world, that’s probably eight
27:24of the 25,000 because the majority of the small and midsize jets, that’s
27:29really, you know, 60% of the airplanes out there. And it’s funny because you
27:34look at this big airplane we have here. This is this is nothing. This is this is
27:39not the market, you know, and and this is maybe the perception what the market
27:44is, but the real the real corporate jet is sitting inside of a vano or, you
27:50know, some a minivan the way you can’t even stand up.
27:53>> In your own sales process, like maybe give us some insight here. It’s what are
27:57some steps that you would say a pro would do selling a a plane um that
28:02others wouldn’t do that you can help increase the probability that you you
28:05close a deal? So, like in the way how you just said show explaining to people,
28:10okay, this is I’m going to explain the aircraft to you first before I show you
28:13any pictures. That’s obviously that’s a pro move.
28:16>> So, if we’re representing a buyer or representing a seller because there’s
28:20two different approaches, right? Because it depends on what hat I have on, who am
28:24I representing? What whose best interest am I representing? Because you have a
28:28completely different answer based on that.
28:30>> Okay? Okay. But if I’m representing the buyer, okay, uh first of all, I know
28:36everything on the market. So, I know what this airplane should be worth and
28:43what the real value is. Okay? Even if I’m selling an airplane, I know what the
28:48market is and I know what that airplane should sell for. So when somebody comes
28:52to me and say, “Well, I could buy this airplane. You know, I have this other
28:56airplane I could pay for this price.” And I could say, you know, you’re full
28:59of [ __ ] You know, by the way, you know, that airplane crashed, you know, or it
29:02has damage history or so if if we’re sending a buyer, you know, we really
29:06know the the questions to ask the seller that we’re not going to have problems
29:12with later and surprises later because that’s the problem. You get in so deep
29:17and and the seller doesn’t tell you all the issues. They they’re relying on you
29:21go find it yourself.
29:23>> Okay. But now if you’re representing a seller,
29:26>> same thing. You’re not going to throw up everything all the bad things about
29:30every on the airplane. You’re you’re you know, you want to get sort of the hook
29:34in the fish. Pull them in. Pull him in. Pull him in. Of course, never
29:37misrepresent anything, but you know, you just don’t you know, just throw all the
29:42negatives because then you’ll chase the guy away. So you have to it’s a delicate
29:45line you you you sort of are walking to sort of sort of feed them information as
29:50you go and and that’s really the the point. How do you keep them pulled in
29:55deeper and deeper and deeper
29:56>> when you’re going to like expanding your sales team? Like what type of
29:59characteristics are you looking for? And do you like hiring people with prior
30:02experience or like fresh? I like hiring people that have aviation in their blood
30:08that they really um I don’t care if you’ve been selling the most highest
30:12price ticket items in the world. If you don’t love, sleep, eat, drink airplanes,
30:19you’re just going to hate it here because first of all, it looks like a
30:22glamorous industry.
30:23>> Yeah.
30:23>> And you know, it it is in a way, but the fact of the matter is is we have a
30:28different model here. And a lot of my competitors, nobody has a showroom,
30:32nobody has an office. They work out of their house. They go to the airport.
30:35They go to fly someplace and try to meet a client here or there in a restaurant
30:39or at their office or going cruising around the airport trying to find
30:42pilots. I don’t know. It’s just
30:44>> um here we’re in the office 90% of the time and we’re making phone calls and
30:50and we have the luxury that a lot of people come here to the showroom. So, we
30:53get to meet a lot of people, but not all our clients come here by any stretch of
30:57the imagination. So, it’s it’s a different kind of a situation than most
31:01of my competitors have.
31:02>> If you’re enjoying this conversation, please do subscribe. We’re a brand new
31:06show, so this will really help us to grow and reach more people. And in
31:10return, we promise to make this show a little better with every single episode.
31:14Sound fair? Let’s get back to it. Jet buying for a high netw worth audience.
31:19Um, that audience is really going to be thinking about this. Maybe it’s a
31:22daydream, maybe it’s something really concrete.
31:25You’ve talked about the process of we’ve talked a little bit about the process of
31:31buying a jet, but if we go back to if we think of it like a video game, there’s
31:36levels, right? So, you start off with business class, you charter, you uh get
31:41a jet card, you go fractional, there’s probably levels within fractional, and
31:44then you go full full ownership. What are the upgrade points where it makes
31:49sense to move and level up? So I usually tell people if you’re flying 150 to 200
31:55hours a year it you should be going from charter fractional to owning an
32:00airplane. It’s not because it’s financially cheaper. It’s just
32:05logistically easier because if you’re flying let’s say 200 hours a year you
32:10know the average flight is about two and a half hours.
32:14Okay. So if you’re talking about, you know, 75 flights a year, that’s, you
32:18know, really one and a half times a week, you’re, you know, you have to
32:21call, you have to find an airplane, becomes a pain in the neck. So just
32:26logistically, it makes more sense to have an airplane. Um, financially, it
32:31depends on what kind of airplane you’re flying and and really what your trips
32:34are. If you’re going, you know, within an hour trip or you’re going on 10-hour
32:37trips, but uh it does definitely does make sense to analyze what your root
32:43structure is. how many people you carrying if you go like last minute or
32:47if you know weeks in advance. So there’s a lot of things that that sort of get
32:51considered in there. But you know today owning a jet is getting more expensive
32:57and the problem is getting parts when the airplane breaks and you know so now
33:03sometimes you say well maybe I should have an airplane and a fractional so I
33:08have a standby you know but that’s you know you have to be flying you know more
33:13than 200 whatever but uh so sometimes or maybe you say you know what I have a jet
33:18for you know 80% of my flights
33:21>> but you know What? I need a different model airplane for these 20% and I buy a
33:26fraction or I charter.
33:28>> Got it.
33:28>> Okay. So, there could be a hybrid.
33:30>> That could make sense also. And and the fact of owning versus fractional versus
33:38charter. It’s sort of when do you have a beard? It it really it’s different for
33:43different people.
33:44>> That makes sense. So if we you’ve talked before where a lot of uh a lot of buyers
33:49are companies um so the corporate and corporate jet you’re a CEO you’re making
33:55the business case to the board hey we really need a jet is there a template or
33:59a playbook for that business case
34:01>> well I can tell you I’ve done an analysis that if you’re flying about 200
34:06hours a year and just to give you an idea um
34:11400 hours is about 175 5,000 miles. Okay. So, when you really think
34:20about in airline terms, you know, platinum level
34:24>> is usually 100,000 mi person, right? That’s less than 200 hours of flying.
34:32>> Okay.
34:32>> Okay. If you’re flying 200 hours a year, I can pretty much show you how I can get
34:38you 30 more days in the office a year.
34:43>> Wow. Okay. Now, that has nothing to do with
34:47your productivity on the plane. Okay? Because you work when you’re on
34:52your corporate jet. You don’t really work when you’re on a commercial plane.
34:55You got people, you know, talking to you, kids screaming, crying, you know,
35:00you you know, it’s and you can’t bring other people. If you have a corporate
35:02jet, sometimes you say, “Take three or four people from your office. Let’s go.”
35:06You know, you’re doing a lot of business and working on the plane. Take that all
35:09aside and you can really save about 30 extra days a year just with 200 hours of
35:15flying. And that is talks about not having to go to the airport 2 hours in
35:20advance. Yeah.
35:21>> Having to, you know, wait for your luggage at the end and then having to go
35:23through immigration, you know, how you just get on your plane and go. So all of
35:27those kind of savings going to an airport that’s closer, leaving at the
35:30middle of the night when you’re finished with a meeting, not having to wait for
35:33the next day to get on a plane,
35:35>> all that kind of stuff. So what’s an extra month out of your executive to be
35:40literally you know in the office? It’s a big number of money business and you
35:46know
35:46>> that’s a good business
35:47>> and the connectivity when you’re on the plane and the security and the
35:51flexibility and it it just there’s a lot of intangible stuff that are
35:56>> more than the financial. So in terms of the team I need or the structure I need
36:01to buy a plane or buy a jet um can you walk through like what lawyers you need
36:07tax structure like where what jurisdiction should I be looking at?
36:11>> Uh if it’s domestic then tax wise you know it’s not as difficult but but you
36:17really need to look at the tax benefits. Yeah. And in the US, you have the
36:21depreciation benefit, which you get 100% of the depreciation of the value of the
36:26airplane the year you buy the airplane,
36:28>> which is an amazing added value because it reduces the cost of the airplane
36:33drastically and you’d rather pay reduce your price of your airplane than the
36:37money you were just going to give to the government anyway. Uh but there’s other
36:41benefits and you can own the airplane in a special purpose vehicle and then rent
36:46it from that company. So it it becomes a corporate expense.
36:50>> Ah okay.
36:52>> You know versus you know just a tax benefit. You also get the operating cost
36:57benefit and you also rent it out to third parties
37:01>> which also changes your tax. It increases your your benefits and you’re
37:06getting income which reduces your operating cost. Uh so that’s from a tax
37:10standpoint. There’s obviously you need a aviation transactional specialist lawyer
37:16to help you negotiate the purchase agreement because it gets very
37:20complicated and the biggest mistake buyers make is to have their in-house
37:25counsel or their family office lawyer
37:28>> say go negotiate this
37:30>> big big big mistake. Um you really need to get the specialist in the industry
37:35who knows what they’re talking about. Could could you give an example of where
37:39where they typically like miss certain things, right? Because this reminds me a
37:42lot again going back to that M&A example. I’ve seen people just go get
37:46like a normal lawyer that they know and bring them to the transaction. It’s like
37:50a disaster waiting to happen. But so could you expand on that?
37:52>> Yeah, sure. I mean, you know, you start talking to them about, well, you need to
37:56get an export certificate of air worthiness and a dregistration from the
37:59country where it’s coming from and going to, and they’re like, what?
38:02>> Yeah.
38:03>> You know, what are you talking about? AK. Well, this is it’s not it’s like
38:06getting me a cup of coffee to an aviation lawyer. I mean, it’s it’s
38:09nothing.
38:09>> That’s what I mean, you know, or you know, liability.
38:15Okay. Um, you know, when does ownership when does liability transfer over
38:20insurance coverage, you know, if the airplane’s in the in the maintenance
38:23facility and um and you have a contract with it with the buyer and the seller
38:29and all of a sudden, I don’t know, let’s say um a truck bumps into the wing.
38:33Yeah. while it’s in the facility. Oh, whose liability is it? Whose insurance
38:37got to cover it? Do you have to even continue to buy the airplane because now
38:41it has damage history? Do you want to buy the airplane? You know, that that
38:45kind of stuff the the a typical lawyer wouldn’t wouldn’t know. So, out of and
38:49if you go to negotiate with the manufacturer, if you’re looking at
38:52buying a new airplane, you would think what’s so difficult. They send you a
38:56contract. I negotiated the guy a half a million bucks. Well done, you know,
39:00in-house lawyer. But you know that’s so stupid because we negotiated a contract
39:06with them to buy a new airplane. We made a couple of changes on the contract.
39:12>> Now the next time we go back to them, we start with that contract that has a
39:17couple of changes and we make a couple more changes and the next time we make a
39:21couple more and now we have like 30 changes that we already know we can do.
39:27>> This guy comes in, you know, and he says, “Oh, okay. this comes in this nice
39:31printed form. This is the contract we use. Well, okay, we want to negotiate
39:35this price down. He thinks just because they saved a few hundred grand that he’s
39:38a hero. But he doesn’t have any clue of what he could have done. And and these
39:44are the sort of little things um like um you know cancellation penalties, um
39:51options you might be able to get thrown into a deal, warranty issues, there
39:55those kind of things. And that that kind of stuff is, you know, the the the
39:59manufacturers, they want to show that they sold the airplane for this price.
40:06>> And if you can show that because they can tell all the other buyers, I’m
40:09sorry, this is the price we sell for,
40:11>> then maybe you can get away with getting some other things done and flown into
40:15the deal. As long as the headline says, we sold the airplane for this price.
40:20>> There’s the floor.
40:20>> Yeah. That’s like when you rent an office building, you know, office
40:24spaces, you know, sometimes the landlord gives you free rent. Well, you know, at
40:28the beginning, well, why would they give you free rent? They say, listen, we’re
40:31keeping the rent at this much per square foot, but we’ll give you, you know, if
40:36you can sign 10ear lease, we’ll give you a year free rent. Well, in your head,
40:39I’m getting, you know, 10% off.
40:42>> Yeah.
40:43>> Of the value, but they’re saying, listen, our rent is this much. You know,
40:47we give you a year free rent, but the rent is this much.
40:49>> Yeah. So when they value the building, they’re rent they’re valuing the
40:53building based on this rent per square foot. So you the perception is different
40:58than the reality.
40:59>> Are there any other like big mistakes that you think people should avoid?
41:03>> I mean really delving into the the history of the airplane is super super
41:09important. You know, who has been doing the maintenance, where the airplane’s
41:14been based, has it been hangared? Um, and do they have a full-time maintenance
41:19director? Uh those kind of questions are really important because you know an
41:24airplane like I said before could have a beautiful new paint a beautiful interior
41:29like I love this plane and it could be really a problem and you go through the
41:33books and the records and find out it had it’s been in the shop eight times in
41:37the last 10 months and you know okay why you know and so
41:42these are the kind of things where you know a guy who’s a regular lawyer would
41:46never know that the airplane goes in the shop they say everything’s working
41:50today. But yeah, but it’s been broken eight times in 10 months. There’s
41:53something out with this airplane.
41:55>> And they wouldn’t think to to know that history. They would just look at the the
41:59sort of the if you want to call it the balance sheet view, what it looks like
42:03today.
42:04>> They don’t look at, you know, the day-to-day cash flow or, you know, P&L
42:08kind of thing. They, you know, that that’s the the difference. It it seems
42:11kind of crazy given like the price of it, the importance of like safety and
42:15all of those other variables that you would want to like cut corners on a
42:18purchase like this. Well, you are a thousand% right. But when an airplane is
42:23used on a charter uh solely for charter, the the idea is
42:30how much can I keep that airplane in the air flying and maybe use a band-aid here
42:35and there to, you know, if something really gets wrong, fix it, but keep
42:40going. versus the CEO who says to the fight department, “I don’t give a [ __ ]
42:47if if you know, you hear a slightest little, you know, creek someplace,
42:53replace it.” Yeah.
42:55>> Okay. You know, I you know, if there’s a scratch on the leather, replace it. You
42:59know, those kind of things where, you know, you and you have a full-time
43:02maintenance director,
43:04>> their job is to be proactive and make sure that 10 to 11 care is given to that
43:09airplane. And basically they act as if it’s their airplane. And the owner is a
43:14guest on the plane. That’s the true kind of crew you need to make them feel like
43:20it’s their airplane and they are and hey, by the way, it’s their life on the
43:25airplane as well, okay? They’re they’re not going to be any daredevil and try to
43:28cut corners. But when you get these guys who are needing to build time and they
43:34they don’t have a lot of experience and they they just want a job to build the
43:37hours on the jets, they’ll do crazy things. So, you really got to look at
43:41the experience of the crew, too. The the the maintenance director is a a really
43:45interesting kind of segue of, you know, we’ve gone through the process, bought
43:50the jet, now I need pilots, I need somebody to put the champagne in the
43:55fridge, I need tires, a hanger. like what’s the how do you go about finding
44:01the team to run the play?
44:04>> So that depends on where the airplane is based. And why I say that is because if
44:08you’re in the United States probably
44:1375 80% of the flights that those airplanes are taking are domestic. And
44:18you just pull up with your car right up to the side of the airplane, get on the
44:21plane, the guy in the ramp takes your car, you get in the plane, you take off
44:24and you go. Everything’s so easy. But outside the US, especially here in the
44:29UK, every single flight you take is an international flight. Okay? So, you
44:35know, you have different currencies, different languages, different, you
44:37know, Euro control. You have different federal regulations. You It is super
44:42complicated. You need you need landing uh permission slots, you need airway
44:47permission slots. Uh it’s so complicated. So in saying that about 80%
44:53of the jets in America are run with an in-house flight department
44:59>> and outside the United States about 90% of the jets are managed by management
45:05companies and those m because it gets complicated if you’re flying to China
45:10and Africa and Russia and stuff you know it is really hard getting permits and
45:16language problems and overflight and currency exchanges and credit and things
45:21like that and your own little fight department, it’s too much to to handle.
45:25So, you want to get a management company. So, the management company does
45:29all of that.
45:31>> Got it.
45:31>> Okay. You pay them a monthly fee and depending on what kind of airplane it is
45:36in which the company is could cost between 10 and $20,000
45:41a month. Mhm.
45:42>> However, since they’re managing a fleet of
45:46airplanes, their buying ability can reduce the cost of insurance of pilot
45:54training and fuel purchases. And usually the savings that they make in those
45:59three line items
46:02>> can can basically offset the cost of their management fee. Got it.
46:06>> So they take that whole headache. Now the pilots are selected by you. Of
46:11course, you’re paying them through the management company. Uh they sort of work
46:15for you, but they really, you know, on the payroll of the management company
46:18and they hire the flight attendant and the pilots and they pay the fuel and the
46:21maintenance and the landing. They do everything. And at the end of one month,
46:25you get a bill with all the receipts and an invoice for saying this is how much
46:29we spent this month and you pay that. when you’re have your own in-house
46:33flight department, you have to get your chief pilot, your second pilot, your
46:38flight attendant, and they are doing all that kind of stuff. And you have like
46:41one bookkeeper on your staff that basically is processing all the
46:45invoices. So, depends on where you are is a different answer, but it it is
46:52usually one person who runs the flight department if it’s your own flight
46:55department. And it’s it’s something easy to do, but when you start doing the
47:00international side of it, it gets much more complicated.
47:03>> And you talked earlier on you talked about chartering. And I think in a
47:06previous interview, you’ve talked about roughly 30% of a jet’s time is maybe out
47:10on charter.
47:12>> Obviously, there’s lots of different ways to charter. What’s the best way to
47:15set up chartering and what should you look for? So yes, about 30 40% of the of
47:22jets that are in the fleet are are chartered and and some of them are 100%
47:28just in the charter fleet and some of them are just owned and people don’t fly
47:33them enough. So they just put them out to charter part-time to reduce their
47:39cost of their own flying or just to keep the airplane flying or the crew busy
47:43because they’re just not flying it enough. And uh there’s the way that it
47:48works. So if if it’s the latter where it’s a company that owns it and they’re
47:53just trying to get some contribution to their operating costs or keeping it
47:56busy, the an aircraft budget is basically has fixed cost and it has
48:01direct operating cost or variable cost. So the fixed costs are whether you fly
48:06one hour or 400 hours a year, you got to pay this amount. This is your pilot
48:10salary, your insurance, your hanger. Whether you fly or you don’t fly, it’s
48:14fixed. And on a on the jets, it’s going to run you anywhere between $700,000 to
48:20$1.3 million depending on a small jet or a long range jet. And that’s fixed cost.
48:25And then every hour you fly is the variable cost. And that’s your fuel,
48:29your landing fees, your catering, the the hotel for the pilots, the
48:33maintenance costs, engine reserves. You don’t pay that unless you fly the plane.
48:38And that runs anywhere between $2,500 an hour to $6,000 an hour. So the way the
48:45budget works is fixed cost variable cost and depending on how many hours you fly
48:52that’s you know increase the variable cost.
48:55>> So the way charter contribution works is let’s say that that the smallest jet
49:01let’s say or the biggest jet you want to say let’s say the biggest jet is $6,000
49:05an hour for your variable cost but that airplane would rent for $10,000 an hour.
49:11So now if you fly that air, if you rent the airplane out $200 a year, you’re
49:16making $4,000 an hour because you’re renting it for 10 and it cost you six.
49:21You’re getting $4,000 an hour times 200 hours, you’re making $800,000
49:26profit.
49:27>> But on that airplane, you’re at a million2 or million3 fixed cost.
49:31>> So basically it brings that million2 down to $400,000. So now your fixed cost
49:36of 400 and it cost you 6,000 an hour to fly it. So you you when people start
49:42saying, “Well, I want to charter the airplane so I can fly for free.” The
49:46reason that doesn’t work is because you have to fly the airplane on charter so
49:52many hours
49:53>> to get the fixed cost down below zero that the airplane’s not available for
49:59you to fly yourself.
50:01>> Does the Does the variable cost include um wear and tear? Because obviously like
50:06there’s engine hours and so is is that included in the variable cost or is it
50:12actually I’m flying it more so I’m going to have more maintenance in a year’s
50:16time or 6 months time.
50:18>> Great question. So on our app when we bring people in and we show them that
50:22that fixed cost number we also say listen this is cash flow. M
50:28>> however you should acrue this amount per year and this direct operating cost per
50:34hour is cash flow but you should acrue this much per year and and exactly what
50:41you’re saying is because after five six seven years you want to do a new
50:45interior. You want to paint the airplane. You want to upgrade some kind
50:48of cockpit kind of thing and it might cost you a million dollars. So, it’s not
50:54an annual cost, but you should acrue it because after every 5, seven years, you
50:58do have to do some upgrades. On the direct operating costs, we add that
51:02number in because usually airplanes between six and 10 years have a major
51:08inspection and they can cost between$1 and $2 million.
51:11>> So, again, we say acrew for this, but it’s not cash flow out of pocket for
51:17your budget.
51:18>> Hey, quick one. Steve is literally giving us a master class in jet purchase
51:22and ownership right now. It’s everything featured in this episode and more. When
51:26does ownership actually make sense, how to structure the purchase, what nobody
51:31tells you about the true cost of owning one, and the questions you should be
51:34asking any broker before you sign anything. If you’re at the stage in your
51:37life where this is even a conversation you’re having, this is the thing to read
51:41before you do anything else. It’s completely free to download. Simply scan
51:45the QR code or click the link in the description right now. Okay, back to
51:49Steve. So, you’ve obviously been in this industry for for long for long enough to
51:52have seen like multiple different cycles. Uh, so economic crashes, COVID,
51:57uh, and the boom that obviously followed after that. So, we want to get your read
52:01in terms of like where things are kind of heading. Um, cuz obviously you’ve got
52:05like private aviation, you’ve got like the jet cards, fractional ownership,
52:09electrification even on the horizon. What’s your take on like where the
52:13industry is going? Well, right now the industry is incredibly hot and uh if you
52:18really want an airplane today that’s less than 5 years old, you know, good
52:22luck. There’s really no inventory available for sale. And and why I asked
52:27this question to all my my my peers? We can’t figure it out. Maybe it’s because
52:32of people there so many people exited or or you know got into the public markets
52:36or whatever it was in the last year or two and there’s been a lot of money
52:39that’s been made. Yeah.
52:41>> Mostly in tech. uh and now is getting more in the next couple years. You got
52:46you know the synthetic biology, you have robotics, you have AI, you have all it
52:50it’s just it’s coming and uh the the market is just really really tight of
52:55what’s available for sale. So we thought by the end of last year it was going to
53:00dry up because usually the you know the last quarter every year because
53:04depreciation you get a little uptick and then January slows down but it really
53:07continued and we’ve been super busy and the market’s been very very tight. So
53:13everything right now is good but of course you know listen no tree grows to
53:16the sky eventually it’s you know got to stop and and and come down and we
53:20thought maybe you know there’s how many wars going on around the world and
53:24that’s going to stop things you know Russia you know took 300 jets out of the
53:29industry you know and all those transactions not a hiccup uh co for sure
53:34I mean you know in the first two months everybody said the end of the world is
53:37here nobody’s going to buy a jet again ever and you know the world is over. And
53:42then after 2 months they started saying, you know, there might be a little light
53:46at the end of the tunnel and all of a sudden that light hit us like you know
53:50like that and all of a sudden demand went up up and you know all these
53:54airplanes that are depreciating assets started appreciating you know cars and
53:59motorcycles you know you couldn’t buy anything and the prices went crazy high.
54:04Um, so that that that sort of, you know, got in the market that brought a lot of
54:09people into the market that never used to be in the market, but that could
54:13afford to be in the market. So there’s a lot of companies they can afford it, but
54:16they never could justify it in their head. But once they really got forced
54:20into it during co,
54:21>> they sort of said, you know what, wow, this really is, you know, bringing a lot
54:25of value to it. So I I wouldn’t say all of them stayed, but I would say a third
54:30of those people stayed. for that, you know, bring you know there’s a um rising
54:36tide raises, you know, all the boats. So, it it increased the sort of
54:41addressable market of potential people in the industry. So now that sort of
54:46helped the market be stronger because there’s more players in it and a lot of
54:51younger people are really a lot of younger people have come into the market
54:55because they have made a lot of money in the last number of years
54:58>> and there’s also a generational wealth that’s being transferred down now and
55:05that’s getting a lot of money into the younger generation. So you you know
55:09where 30 years ago the average age of a CEO of a company buying an airplane was
55:14probably in his late 60s, today that person is probably in his late 40s. So
55:20that adds so many more people into the market. So all of these things have sort
55:25of made the market uh busier, more people in it, the addressable market and
55:30and uh it’s just made the the market more available for a level below what it
55:36used to be. Where is the market going from here? Listen, there’s these EV
55:41tolls, these flying cars. The the EV toll is an electric vertical takeoff
55:45landing. It’s sort of a a passenger carrying drone. It’s uh that is going to
55:50be huge in and and not the future. We’re talking about in the next year or two,
55:56these things are being certified and coming to the market. And that’s going
55:59to make a lot of the smaller shorter trips, helicopters, smaller jets, turbo
56:04props. It’s going to take a lot of that market out cuz that’s going to be uh a
56:09very inexpensive way to travel short distances. It’s going to be carbon zero.
56:15It’s going to have no engine noise and have drone noise, but no engine noise.
56:19Uh it’s going to be safer because they’re going to have multiple
56:22distributed um uh power sources. So, there’s a lot of benefits to those kind
56:27of things. And as far as uh the corporate jets, the corporate jet use,
56:31they’re trying to make them more efficient as they go. They’re trying to
56:34use uh different kind of fuel sources that are going to be much more uh carbon
56:40friendly and the manufacturers have done so much to make it better and better
56:45from from that kind of standpoint even though there’s such a minuscule effect
56:50on the environment. It’s just stupid to even talk about it. Um so we see the
56:55industry being you know very very strong going forward and where it’s going to go
57:01from you know the corporate jet side it I’m curious to know myself because you
57:07know the airplanes now are able to go 8,000 miles nautical miles so really
57:11anywhere in the world with one stop you can go anywhere and you know you can go
57:15from here to Singapore non-stop you can go from here to Hawaii non-stop uh you
57:20know you don’t even want to be on an airplane while So
57:24>> where does the fleet go now? So the technology is got to be developed from
57:29there. You know, maybe it’s Elon’s trip to the moon. I don’t know. But uh but
57:35you know, it it things can become just more efficient. They’re going to be
57:38more, you know, economically available to to more people. and um and hopefully
57:45the um economics are just uh make it more ripe for a lower level of wealth to
57:54be able to utilize that kind of form of transportation.
57:57>> Um another question obviously like China’s gaining ground inside like
58:01commercial aviation with like comarmac. Um when should we expect to see like the
58:06Chinese jets coming in to like compete? It’s really bizarre because they
58:11nobody’s ever trusted getting into a Chinese
58:16manufactured airplane. And it doesn’t mean to say that there’s nothing wrong
58:20with them, of course. And actually, Airbus used to have a um uh a plant that
58:29assembled Airbuses in China. And so there was they were Airbus airplanes
58:38manufactured in China, but they were basically put together there and no
58:43problem. They were they were all into the Chinese fleet. Comarmac is a you
58:47know is a big company. they’re very credible and when it becomes much more
58:54cost effective than when it competes against the US manufacturers or the
58:59French manufacturer or the Canadian manufacturers or Brazilian um you will
59:03see people move over to it. it. People are very easy to get adapted to
59:10something if the price
59:12>> well you look you look at the Chinese EV cars and particularly in Europe how well
59:16they’re doing and um it makes a lot of sense.
59:19>> Absolutely. And and you’ll start seeing you know just the first company has to
59:24buy that plane and put it into service because human beings are like penguins,
59:29right? The first one jumps in the water they all follow.
59:32>> And who’s the first one that jumps in? That’s the question, you know? And and
59:36the same thing with these EV toll, these flying cars, you know, people, oh, you
59:40know, you’re going to really want to get into one of those things, you know, and
59:42they say, well, you know, I’m not get one without a pilot.
59:45>> In today’s world,
59:47>> it really takes something like um an influencer.
59:51>> Yeah.
59:51>> Okay. Who, you know, might have 500 million followers, whatever, and they
59:57get on one of these things and they get off and say, “Wow, that was [ __ ]
1:00:00amazing. I loved it.”
1:00:02>> Then it’s normal.
1:00:03>> It’s done. Yeah. It’s done. You don’t need government approvals. You don’t
1:00:06need PR campaigns. You don’t need the justification
1:00:09that something simple as that makes everything go away. However, if they get
1:00:15off the plane, it’s like you’re screwed, right? Yeah.
1:00:20You know, in our industry, you don’t ever ask a question you don’t know the
1:00:24answer to.
1:00:24>> Yeah. and and and uh so
1:00:27>> well if you look at driverless car like San Francisco the Whimo taxis and stuff
1:00:31are all doing their thing and so people adapt quickly
1:00:34>> people adapt and and you know everybody hates change
1:00:38>> but the fact of the matter is is humans can adapt very easily they just don’t
1:00:42want to admit it but it it happens
1:00:45>> I mean think about social media today okay can you imagine
1:00:51if I walked up to you on the street fintech
1:00:54Look at this picture of what I had for lunch today. This is amazing. Isn’t this
1:00:59really Look at this food. You like you crazy. What are you showing me what you
1:01:02had to eat today? And I what? Look like but now I I post it on my Instagram and
1:01:08like oh this is what happened like in a restaurant or you know you my
1:01:12grandmother died 20 years ago today. I I really am so heartbroken. You’re like
1:01:17what are you telling me for? But it’s okay to put it on Instagram and you know
1:01:21and everybody says oh I’m so sorry. Things that just were so crazy to think
1:01:27about years ago are normal today.
1:01:29>> Well, think of Uber like getting into a car with a stranger
1:01:32>> completely.
1:01:33>> As a child, you were told don’t get into a car with a stranger, right? That was
1:01:36the whole lesson. It was
1:01:37>> I mean, so, you know, the world is so different. I mean, you know, and I I
1:01:42gave a a graduation speech my university uh last May and and I said, you know,
1:01:48give your parents a break, man. And I mean, you know, the things that we were
1:01:52able to say, forget 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 5 years ago, are just not
1:01:59acceptable today.
1:02:00>> And you know, you you can’t say that. You can’t say that. Hey, you know, [ __ ]
1:02:06I mean, you know, you know, 10 years ago, nobody knew what AI, robotics,
1:02:10synthetic biology, you know, crypto this is all new vocabulary. You know,
1:02:15give your parents a break, man. world changes and it’s changing faster and
1:02:18faster. So, you know, the world adapts, it changes and and people now really
1:02:24things get on uh social media and all of a sudden in 5 minutes all of a sudden
1:02:29the world’s different. Before we get back to the episode, I want to introduce
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1:03:43>> Uh, now I want to fire through a handful of quick questions that I’ve been dying
1:03:48to know and I think everyone else wants to know as well.
1:03:50>> Um, first of all, who is your tailor? Cuz they’re doing a fabulous job.
1:03:57>> I love Oswald Bang.
1:03:59>> Okay.
1:03:59>> Uh, which is a shop here in London. Uh, and I This is a Ralph Lauren purple suit
1:04:08and uh, Doce Gabbana. Those are those are the three that I usually use.
1:04:11>> Amazing. Where is your favorite place for a business lunch in London?
1:04:15>> Right here we’re sitting.
1:04:18>> Second.
1:04:19>> I I can tell you in in uh I’d say in 13 years, if I have been out to lunch a 100
1:04:27times in 13 years, I I’d be way way exaggerating. I I maybe it’s been 30 40
1:04:32times and I just never go out as Got it. Usually at lunchtime I go out to go to a
1:04:37gym and work out for an hour, but I usually don’t do those lunches.
1:04:41>> Okay. Where’s your favorite airport?
1:04:43>> Well, Farm Airport is actually my favorite. It’s it’s the most civilized.
1:04:46It’s the cleanest. It’s uh you know, might be an extra few minutes to drive
1:04:50out there, but once you’re on the you know, on the ramp, you get out and go
1:04:53real quick. So, it’s it’s a it’s a beautiful airport. What’s the craziest
1:04:57interior design request in a jet you’ve seen or heard about?
1:05:01>> Well, in the old days, uh, when we did a lot of stuff in the Middle East, they
1:05:06wanted to have the chairs that were always pointing to Mecca.
1:05:10>> Ah,
1:05:11>> that was uh unique. And of course, in those days, they wanted to make the
1:05:15interiors rather Middle Eastern design, which of
1:05:19course now become much more contemporary. But in those days they
1:05:23became very heavy, very goldplated, very crystals and sometimes they made the
1:05:28airplane so heavy it just they took half the range away from the airplane. Um,
1:05:33but it’s funny most people don’t do things crazy on the airplane. And I try
1:05:38to convince him not to because you it’s not like in a house where you basically
1:05:42can get up and look in another room. You’re stuck looking at that,
1:05:45>> you know, for 10 hours at a time and you can’t get up and move. So you got the
1:05:48roulette wheel just sitting there just spinning around
1:05:52looking at a picture for you know
1:05:54>> Okay. What’s something that you you choose to spend a lot of money on that
1:05:58you feel is completely worth it?
1:06:01>> My summer um
1:06:03>> I I travel a lot in around the Med during the summer. I’m on different
1:06:08yachts um and staying in the best the you know beautiful resorts and between
1:06:14you know Mknos and Sanrope and Monaco and Capri and you know Videst and these
1:06:19kind of places and that’s where most of my clients are.
1:06:24>> So I am I am enjoying my life but I am really working every day of my life
1:06:30every minute of my life just usually from beautiful places and I’m in touch
1:06:34with my a lot. I I spend a lot of money on personal life, but it really is it it
1:06:40overshadows over or it just blends into my business life cuz I I really don’t
1:06:44see I don’t differentiate the two.
1:06:46>> It’s the dream, right? It’s all one. I love it.
1:06:48>> I I I just personally tell people, listen, you know, the true definition of
1:06:52success is when you wake up in the morning and you can’t wait to go to the
1:06:56office and at the end of the day, you can’t wait to get home and see your
1:06:58family. If you if you can have say both those things, you’re a success.
1:07:04>> Yeah. Completely agree. Completely agree. Steve, this was awesome. Uh,
1:07:09where should people connect with you or go to find out more?
1:07:13>> So, my website, the jetbus.com is the best place and I’m easy to find and my
1:07:18email is on there, which is svthejetbus.com.
1:07:21So, I’m happy to and I usually find my phone number and I pick up 24/7. So,
1:07:28unless I’m on a plane or I’m in a meeting like right now or the phone’s
1:07:31been vibrating away here, uh, usually I’ll pick up the phone.
1:07:34>> Yeah, I might add I when I emailed you, you replied really, really fast and I
1:07:38did notice that
1:07:39>> cuz if it gets down too far down the line, I’ll use
1:07:44>> brilliant. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Nice to meet you. Cheers.
1:07:48Thank you.
1:07:48>> Thank you.
Your Guide To Buying With Steve Varsano
Steve Varsano, founder of The Jet Business, breaks down the realities of buying, owning, and operating private jets after more than 30 years at the top of the industry. He explains when jet ownership actually makes sense, the costly mistakes buyers make, and why the real value of private aviation often comes down to something more valuable than money: time.
“If you’re flying 200 hours a year, I can pretty much show you how I can get you 30 more days in the office a year”
“The true definition of success is when you wake up in the morning and you can’t wait to go to the office, and at the end of the day, you can’t wait to get home and see your family”
“You can change the interior of an airplane. You can’t change the history. You can’t change the pedigree”
“Don’t look in my pocket. Look in your pocket. Look at how much more I’m going to save you when we’re buying an airplane and how much more I’m going to make you when we’re selling your airplane”
Founder, The Jet Business · London
Steve Varsano founded The Jet Business in 2011, the first ground-floor corporate aviation showroom in the world, on Hyde Park Corner. Over four decades he has brokered aircraft for royalty, heads of state and self-made founders, building a reputation as the person the very wealthy call when they want to buy back their time.
He started selling aircraft in 1984 and has closed deals across six continents. On True Wealth he talks candidly about the sales he lost, the structures he refused, and the quiet conversations that only happen above the Atlantic.
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